Nokia’s N97 has a seriously wimpy processor
Oh boy. In the past there has been a lot of talk about Nokia’s upcoming flagship N97 and why it has some difficulties keeping its apps up and running, and now we have official word as to the likely reason — it’s powered by an ARM 11 processor that clocks in at a limp 434MHz. Seriously. While we know it’s not always about how many MHz a processor has but how efficient the processor itself is (as well as other components), this is a flagship handset we’re talking about here. After all, the N97 will likely command an insane price tag up around $800 with a processor that only has a 65MHz advantage over the hum-drum 5800 XpressMusic. And If you want to get even more snooty, here’s a little food for thought:
- BlackBerry Bold – 624MHz
- HTC Magic – 528MHz
- HTC Touch Pro2 – 528MHz
- Palm Pre – est. 600MHz
- Samsung i8910 – 600MHz
[Via Engadget Mobile]
Here’s a history lesson for anybody who isn’t familiar with Nokia’s hardware failures in the past.
+One of the early Nseries devices, the N80, only packed an 820mAh battery to power tons of new tech at the time (3.2mp camera, WLAN, S60v3, etc,.). This device, as well as the original N95 were never able to figure out proper power management. The N95 was fixed later with the N95-3 and 8gb variants, adding a larger battery.
+Again, the original N95 (and almost all previous devices, shy of the E90 and N76) only gave the user a max of 20mb of available RAM, causing applications to crash consistently due to out of memory errors. This was half-assedly fixed with demand paging in firmware updates, and fixed properly with new hardware in the N95-3 and 8gb variants.
+After the success of the N95 and the breakthroughs in power handling in testing of FP2, Nokia decided to remove the 3D hardware acceleration from the N85, N79 and N96. Gaming on the older N95 variants is still much smoother to this day.
+Hoping to build on the N95’s success, Nokia builds the N96 with TV tuner, larger internal storage, AND a microSD slot. They also dropped the standard ARM11 processor for an ARM9 clocked at 264mhz. Read any review (including mine); that device was SLOW. Nokia also repeated their battery mistake with powering the N96 with a measly 950mAh battery, just like the original N95.
tl;dr? Nokia doesn’t understand how to build a device properly.
I’ve said it plenty of times, but I’ll say it again: I can not justify paying Nokia a premium to own a device with the same camera and processor that has been used for over 2 years now. Yes, it’s Symbian and does manage quite well on minimal hardware, but that didn’t stop Samsung from throwing the Cortex A8 with 3D graphics acceleration into THEIR Symbian flagship. With that, the better screen tech, the larger camera, and that it will be available sooner than the N97 (and MUCH sooner than the N97 NAM), I don’t mind the smaller storage and the lack of keyboard.
Nokia needs to figure it out real quick. They’re never going to build a better device until the fanboys stop making excuses for them and stop buying their beta products.
Again with the history lesson, the N95 was the last Nokia device with a decent cpu SoC because it was based on the fast TI platform with 3D.
Since they switched away to the Freescale platform with the N85 and the N96 (probably to get more power reduction), it’s been crap and entirely forgettable.
As mentioned, even Samsung destroys Nokia with the Symbian based Innov8 that uses a lot of superior hardware, as well as the upcoming OmniaHD.
You CANNOT push out a non-iPhone level/quality platform these days as your flagship device, PERIOD. So, as long as Nokia continues to push out 2nd/3rd class devices as their flagship, Samsung FTW.
People are jumping to conclusions without good reason.
I don’t care how many Mhz the processor in my phone is running at, I care about it being responsive and powerful enough to do anything I ask of it.
If it plays full screen video smoothly, if it handles playing music & browsing the web at the same time, if it is responsive when I touch the screen or press a button, that is what matters, not how many Mhz it’s running at.
I’d rather have a responsive and powerful phone that does everything well with a 400Mhz processor than the same phone @ 600Mhz, with little benefit to performance and a worse battery life.
See how it performs before complaining about something that may not even be an issue, and could be an asset!
Obviously, he’s not a Symbian user. I remember when the older Nokia flagship handsets like the 9300 and 9500 were clocking like 95 to 98 mhz. This was at a time that WinMo was already at 200 and looking into something higher like 400 mhz. And they were just as awesome then, as the N97 will be now.
Hell even the RAZR 2 has a 500mhz processor and its not even a smartphone!!!
When it comes to WM vs Symbian, those who have used both will be able to tell you that processor speed doesn’t matter. Symbian has always done a better job of delivering a smoother experience with less mhz. But when it comes to the OmniaHD running the SAME OS? Then all we’re talking about is one CPU being faster and more efficient than the other, plain and simple.
Don’t forget the N97 is supposed to also be an Ngage device, despite Ngage playing noticeably worse on all devices after the N95 without 3D hardware acceleration. Don’t believe me? Watch this video of Global Race played on a 5800XM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P08RcnSaICE) and then on a 3 year old E90 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Xs_Qb7O90).
And anyone who thinks faster processor = less battery life, here’s a quote from an EngadgetMobile commentor on the matter:
“Please note that ARM11 is an old-style core from ARM while Cortex A8 (and A9 as a newer one) are not only newer but also completely different in approach cores to ARM11.
The main differences are in core design, now integrating:
- interrupt controller –> saving a lot of time while servicing interrupts; in power down it translates directly to much shorter on-time, thus lower average power consumption
- power saving modes –> not available on ARM 7/9/11
I do not remember detailed figures for Cortex A8 core but it should be less than 50% of mA/MHz in compare to ARM11 with same clock.
Comparing of ARM11 and Cortex A8(9) does not make a big sense then.”
@Allen, if I understand your points correctly, you think that:
-Carl Zeiss optics and another LED trumps 8mp with HD video recording (and tons of other features in the camera software that Nokia has never touched before)
-The N97 has DDR RAM (which it doesn’t)
-The keyboard with a smaller, resistive LCD is better than no keyboard with a larger capacitive OLED
-The N97 looks nicer than an OmniaHD is built
-The significantly better Cortex A8 processor is negligible because the N97 has a shitty FM transmitter.
Is that all correct? The OmniaHD has a shitty FM transmitter too, btw, and you’ll be able to hack all of the Ovi store apps onto it if necessary.
Yay! Nokia E71!
let a girl slip in a comment. i have the 5800 and honestly the 5th edition kinda blows when you turn on transitions.i imagine nokia has tested this using all kinds of speedy processors. but in the end this speed seemed enough.the higher the processor means more battery. and everyone knows Iphone sucks on battery juice. so giving it just enough to balance out LONG batter life.
The iPhone, like the N97 and those newer Nseries devices all use the same ARM11 architecture. The Cortex A8 architecture is not only faster but also supports dynamic power management, which ARM11 does not. So both the Pre and the OmniaHD are going to be faster, manage processes better, and use less power to do it than anything based on ARM11. That and we don’t even know what Apple’s going to do with the processor in the next iPhone. There is no excuse for Nokia to use old tech like this in 2009 when the competition has already moved on.
If some people on here are saying the ARM11 processor is a solid, what does that make the snapdragon then? all processors are solid in their times, even the the old 386X PC cpu were, but i doubt anyone would considering installing one into their desk top now lol… the cpu nokia are giving us is 3 years old and 3 years is very is a long time in terms of technology.
When I found out that Nokia will be releasing a touchscreen with ful qwerty keyboard phone I got all excited and started thinking about replacing my N95 but after seeing all these comments about the N97 and found out about the Samsung Omnia HD. I don’t know which one to get anymore!
Alot of the comments here are actually true, I bought my N95 about 3 years ago and I’m not saying I’m 100% satisfied with it but there are still some few things that Nokia might have done better (for example, battery, memory storage and the “out of memory” error) so when I first heard about the N97 and the Samsung OmniaHD, I decided that I was going to replace my N95….it would be nice if someone can compile a FULL SPEC comparison between the N97 and Samsung OmniaHD or other phone at this level to help people decide which one to get.
I’m probably still going to end up getting the N97, it has pretty much everything that I want from a phone, plenty of storage plus additional Micro SD slot (unlike the iphone), keyboard, touch screen, plus the plethora of apps available on symbian ( a lot of S60v3 apps seem to work fine too on S60v5). I’ve yet to buy a Nokia that has broken down, I’ve owned the 7250, N70, and N82, and none have ever let me down, by contrast every SE phone I’ve owned falls to bits in the first couple of months (I’ve had the K750, W850, W880, and the P1).
The Samsung Onmnia HD looks mighty tempting, but ultimately its going to let me down on apps as probably only like 5 people will end up buying it, even currently there is so little support for Samsung specific apps (there are ways to run things like Nokia N-gage on i8510, but seriously outside you’re hardcore pirate crowd who’s going to bother going to all that effort). Which is why its the N97 for me, don’t care about processor speed as long as it performs.
Well, a “bigger” processor mean a much consumption from the battery> less life “on the road”. So, I preffer a lower speed in order to use the phone much more. And Nokia is well-known for good life on battery.
@Adrian, a “bigger” next-gen processor means less power consumption because of power saving abilities not shared by the older ARM11 architecture Nokia decided to use. So with the newer faster devices, you get better battery life too.
@jonnybruha
That’s true a newer processor normally have a better power saving, like comparing the old Pentium 4 with newer Core, and Core 2 tech…
But, what if Nokia already has chosen (secretly) Cortex-A8 but underclocked at 434 Mhz and undervolted? Already Nokia has declared they’re really are using ARM11? i only have read about the incorporation of ARM11 in so much pages, but not in hands of Nokia…
Also, the fact is that more or less Mhz is not equal to velocity and even to power consumption…
Also, i think comparing phones with datasheets (even with facts true like Cortex>ARM11) is like loosing the time. Anyway, I’ll not be an indias bunny
@Alonso, no they’ve already posted the processor they’re using. It’s the Freescale MXC300-30 clocked at 434mhz. There’s no surprises here.
R U Serious? Ummm the math was done correctly. Maybe the reader just didn’t understand the way it was written ie: 65 MHz “advantage” (keyword).
@Aaron Said: I’ve just got to say your post was GREAT!
I was reading more about i8910 and i found two disapointing things:
Video 720p, but with AMR 8 Khz, monoaural audio… It’s appeats that in VGA or lower resolution, the audio codec is AAC at 40-44 Khz…
And this:
“was trying to do some benchmarks on the Omnia and on the 5800 for comparison. Unfortunately, all available benchmarks (like those from jbenchmark.com) are written in Java while the Omnia has something screwed up with the Java engine. Even though the Omnia has twice more RAM than the 5800, many jbenchmark.com benchmarks run just fine on the 5800 while they quit with a “Not enough memory” error message on the Omnia.
Moreover, it seems that even though the Omnia has a much faster processor than the 5800, its system is not optimized for the new OMAP3 / Arm Cortex CPU. All benchmarks that I was able to run gave considerably WORSE results on the Omnia than on the 5800 (!). I was going to start my review from praising the Omnia for its powerful hardware but now I’m not really sure what to write. Maybe it’s just that the Java VM is not optimized (but even if so then it should at least give similar results as the 5800 and not worse), but on the other hand if Java isn’t optimized then it’s possible that also the rest of the OS isn’t…”
What seems to be this:
“they did it again. its the same error like in innov8 : to less heap memory. heap memory has nothing to do with ram. its a special dedicated java memory. if this error appears it means that i8910 cant work with any java 3d based games and apps.”
Well, none is perfect, also i won’t buy i8910 or N97, because i want Xenon Flash and multitouch (and i don’t want record “HD” videos with 8Khz audio), waiting Idou or some better…
I can attest to the video recording. Any of the users who bought their Orange branded model have confirmed the poor audio and a very large amount of feedback has already been sent back to Samsung about it.
I would like to see your source on these quotes however. The only i8910’s that are available right now are the ones from Orange and if I remember correctly, nobody has been able to install any Java applications whatsoever on them yet due to Orange’s restrictions. I’ll save the verdict until I can handle an unbranded i8910 myself and if there is no advantage to Samsung using superior hardware, I’ll swap it for something else.
First and second post in this thread:
http://www.symbian-freak.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32575&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=210
I searched the original post before writing my comment, and is this:
http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39577&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
Don’t know if it’s Orange or not, but why seems to be the same case as that of Innov8 (orange, vodafone, movistar, or even free)? One could say that there is already a precedent
Whatever, i8910 seems to be very very good
, but i think we need to know the possible weaknesses that may exist… Because that thing that one can live with him, may be crucial for others…
PD. Sorry my bad English..
We shall see, Alonso. All we have to base this on is the post of two forum members and one of the allegations is pure speculation at best based on not being able to perform Java tests. There could be several other reasons why this happened also and I’m definitely going to give a device of this caliber the benefit of the doubt.
In any case, I’ve already seen several other specific examples of where the i8910 outperforms all other S60 devices available (camera speed, GIF performance, video control during playback), that certainly shows that the OMAP3430 isn’t being wasted. At the end of the day, all that matters is how well the device performs in your hand, and from everything I’ve seen, it exceeds in most areas.
I just got done reading through the thread you posted and it looks like I was right. Running Speedy Go! on the OmniaHD versus the 5800XM yielded noticeably higher results. Just check page three of the thread on my-symbian.com with Michael Jerz impressions.
OMAP3430 FTW!
Hands-down, Britannia once again will rule the waves. ARM you have my vote.