Comments on: RIM and Apple gain more smartphone marketshare at Nokia’s expense

By: backbeat

backbeat — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:42:59 +0000

^Lonely lil cave you drag your knuckles in, isn’t it? If it weren’t so hysterical … it’d just be sad.

By: David Thande

David Thande — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:30:47 +0000

@ backbeat. Your P-i-e. H-o-l-e!

Thanks

By: backbeat

backbeat — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:07:17 +0000

^No insight required where you’re concerned. If you were any more a -transparent- unapologetic, shameless troll, you wouldn’t exist.

By: David Thande

David Thande — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:38:39 +0000

@ BackBeat Shut your hole! Don’t look for any hidden messages or insight into my personality. Just shut your pie hole!

By: backbeat

backbeat — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:33:58 +0000

^Said the sanctimonious, self-aggrandizing, shrill lil hater of those things it doesn’t understand nor have the mental curiosity to experience.

I’m a pc.

By: David Thande

David Thande — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 02:27:10 +0000

Oh god prepare to be disapointed Apple fan boys!

By: JakeyBoy

JakeyBoy — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:24:24 +0000

and by the way, iPhone just announced a new OS—3.0…what say you!

By: jazzyl

jazzyl — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:11:31 +0000

I like both RIM and Nokia.

By: andy

andy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:54:14 +0000

I agree with many posts in here, but also disagree. I think there are two main issues nokia isnt selling its share of smartphones these days.
#1. is the OS. I have owned many s60 devices in my day, and i like the layout of it. everything is exactly where i know it will be. on the downside, many people out there want a phone with a unique UI, and s60 does not have that. My sister, who is used to proprietary samsung phones used my n95 and said she didnt like it. It was too boring for her. This is arguably the most feature packed phone on the market (even today), but the UI was boring.
#2. build quality. visit an official s60 thread in howardforums.com and read the comments. I was almost sold on the specs of the n85, then I read up about peoples experiences with it, and when 90% of the people that bothered to post said they are experiencing failures and are sending them back after a week of ownership, i decided to get a tested and true n82. Nokia sent their finland plants to china, and this is what you get. 5800 anyone>?

By: JakeyBoy

JakeyBoy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 05:17:47 +0000

some of their writers used to work for Engadget. or so they say…

By: David Thande

David Thande — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:11:44 +0000

Jackass so does Nientendo!

By: ThisGuy

ThisGuy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:38:40 +0000

As well as they provide news and stories for us, BGR are fanboys of both Apple and RIM. They watch too many iPhone and BB commercials.

When they are talking about the business side of the industry, BGR is absolutely clueless. The technical reviews are good, but their opinions are uber bias, and this is from not understanding how the business works. Let’s face it, the writers are just normal guys sitting in front of their computers. They have probably never worked within the industry, theyre just gadget freaks who put up website.

By: Wifiguy

Wifiguy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:27:15 +0000

Yeah, iPhone has 25,000 applications running so I call that a smartphone.

By: JakeyBoy

JakeyBoy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:02:22 +0000

Why would Apple’s sales diminish? How long did the Razr take to fall off the charts? Who says BGR are Apple fanboys? I’m pretty sure they are BB fans.

By: Mark

Mark — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:31:25 +0000

Awesome! More people who don’t understand product release cycles!

Let’s review here: In Q4 Apple had the post launch Xmas sales of the iPhone which accounted for about 4 million sales. Of course, this was down from 6 million the quarter before and now that the market is getting saturated it’ll drop further next quarter. RIM released the Storm, put the Bold into production and released new Curve versions.

Nokia released… um… err… maybe the N85 and possibly the N79 neither of which were particularly marketed or hyped.

So Apple and RIM made gains in one quarter where they had major release with appropriate marketing campaigns or a major release the quarter before. Care to guess what’s going to happen next quarter when Apple’s sales decrease and Nokia get a boost from sales of the 5800? Go on, take a wild stab in the dark!

However, what’s even more amusing is BGR – like all the other technical journals who were busy fapping over Apple overtaking WinMo’s market share – fail to mention that, as predicted by all of us who actually understand market dynamics, it’s dropped behind again! More awesomeness.

Seriously, stick to reviewing gadgets. Your quite good at that and, frankly, you suck at market dynamics.

By: JakeyBoy

JakeyBoy — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:42:38 +0000

I’ve had every “it” phone, and I always go back to the iPhone. Maybe the Pre will change my mind. We’ll see. The Apple OS is smooth and looks polished. All the other OS’s are a bit clunky and jagged. Just my opinion. Sure there are things about each OS that are slightly better than the next, but as far as a whole, Apple wins.

By: TRV$

TRV$ — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:57:29 +0000

Exactly my point! You know that the carriers are aware of the capabilities of the lesser plans, but what can they do? if they all of a sudden announce an “all data plan at $15″ then there will be a class action lawsuit for having been charged twice as much as necessary for X amount of years on the “smartphone” plan.

I’m definitely going to look into the unlocked phone market….

By: David Thande

David Thande — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:27:44 +0000

Hahahha Apple wants to Buy Rim? And Nokia bought Apple and its owned by Google?

By: bitflung

bitflung — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:50:15 +0000

@TRV$
“Perhaps the only people really perpetuating the term smartphone anymore are the carriers. They get to charge extra $$$ every month [..]
By att’s standards, the Nokia 6650 is not a smartphone, however it runs [..] smartphone-esque capabilities, yet you only need the $15 data unlimited [..] Whereas my moto Q9h has basically the same functionality, [..] but it’s $30 per month. Maybe it’s just carrier price gouging at this point.”

i agree 100%. actually, i might have a legitimate reason to say something greater than 100%, maybe 110% (side note: i HATE it when people say something like ‘give me 110%’ — what, did they fail all math courses since grade school?)

why 110%?
i think you get MORE from the non-smart-phone plans. more ability, less $$. i can tether my mac to my N95 with zero-hassle and zero-extra billing : can’t do that with the ‘legitimate’ att $30-plan-phones. (i even setup my phone as a walking hotspot to provide tethering type service wirelessly to 5 machines at once). i can VPN through my N95 as well, and i’m suppoed to pay, what is it, $60 for a plan supporting VPN connections?

so, i agree 110%. that is, i agree with what you said, but i hold the same viewpoints more strongly than you voiced them. the difference in price over time is a fundamental reason why i’ve kept my N95 and will replace it only with another unlocked device which i don’t have to tell AT&T anything about.

By: JustAGuy

JustAGuy — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:31:16 +0000

Couple of things (and yes, I own an iPhone)- 40% still DOMINATES the market. Blackberries (RIM) are the next most powerful player, and they have just under 20%, that means there are still TWICE as many Nokia s60 devices being sold as blackberries, and that is more or less without a presence in the US/Canada (that’s a whole other issue though). Secondly, is it possible that Nokia isn’t selling less smartphones, simply that everyone else is selling more? I assume that the smartphone market is getting bigger every year (heck I got my first smartphone 3 years ago, and I was in the first wave at work, now I think our custodians have blackberries), so maybe Nokia just isn’t growing as fast as the others (Apple, RIM, HTC, Samsung, etc). That kind of goes back to Nokia ignoring North America. I know that for years Europe was WAY ahead of us over here on this side of the pond in regards to phones. However, we are finally catching up, and that market is being filled with players OTHER than Nokia for the most part (those of you from the US and Canada, honestly, how many people do you know, non-geeks, who have a Nokia smartphone?). RIM and Apple have a pretty strong presence and marketing strategy in North America, and seem to be carving up the market between them, with a healthy dose of HTC as well. Just my 2 cents

By: Person

Person — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:30:51 +0000

RIM products and the Iphone are good/great phones, however, I think their selling share is due largely to popularity or wow factor. People come into my store who aren’t data users want a blackberry because so and so uses one. This happens with the Iphone as well. Some consumers come in waiting to get an iphone, because someone they know has one or they saw a commercial about it. Keep in mind some of these consumers don’t even own a computer to access Itunes. However, before i get yelled at, i do agree that the iphone does have the best web browsing experience. I think Nokia’s smartphone usually aren’t seen as smartphones. A lot of phones that U.S. only gets are flips or bar Nokias. A lot of people don’t have access or don’t know about the E series or the N series. A lot of consumers don’t realized there are GSM unlocked phones out there. I carry a E71 at work and when i bring out its shiny, thin, design consumers always ask “Whats that?”. Most love the design. So maybe its lack of tied devices to carriers that are E series or lack of PR for Nokia here in the U.S.

…just my thoughts.

By: iPhoneJunkie

iPhoneJunkie — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:23:56 +0000

Well it’s clear that RIM and Apple are getting where they want to be. I can’t believe that Nokia was ever a juggernaut. If anything the only good phones they make are the N-series. Yet, iPhone definately takes home the prize for just looking like a smart phone, although it doesn’t always act like one. On the other hand it took RIM a long time to finally start focusing on just consumer like Blackberrys and not so corporate. Better late then never I always say. Might I add that they definately keep making further strides then other manufacters in regards to overall design and studiness of the phone i.e. 8900 and 9000. Although the Bold is a little BIG for my taste but what the heck. Lastly, I hope they keep doing a good jump and just keeping making better phones. Good job RIM/Apple. Now just add MMA/copy

By: Ryan H

Ryan H — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:09:30 +0000

@ Bitflung

I agree with pretty much everything you stated.

@Martin

I read an interview with Ralph De La Vega (AT&T Mobility CEO) said that the Nokia 6650 wasn’t technically a smartphone because it doesn’t have a full QWERTY keyboard. Here’s a link of the interview. http://tinyurl.com/aad8xj

Of course, each carrier and manufacturer has it’s own definition I’m sure.

@ Mingkee

The only thing I can think of for not really supporting Verizon/Sprint is because the primary market for Nokia is Europe then US. With GSM leading with like 80% world wide acceptance/usage, why spend tons of R&D time and money on something that’s virtually non-existant (CDMA) in the big picture. Also, Verizon is going to switch over to GSM anyways (so I read).

By: TRV$

TRV$ — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:22:04 +0000

@ martin

Perhaps the only people really perpetuating the term smartphone anymore are the carriers. They get to charge extra $$$ every month if you want the full experience of your smartphone.

By att’s standards, the Nokia 6650 is not a smartphone, however it runs S60, full HTML, among other smartphone-esque capabilities, yet you only need the $15 data unlimited to take advantage of it’s full capabilites. Whereas my moto Q9h has basically the same functionality, but with a QWERTY keyboard, and WinMo, but it’s $30 per month.

Maybe it’s just carrier price gouging at this point.

By: mingkee

mingkee — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:15:36 +0000

nokia deserves to lose as they ignored the outcry of demands from T-Mobile (3G), VZW, and Sprint, the S60 model works only with ATT
they should get punished
S60>SE OS>S40

By: TRV$

TRV$ — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:09:39 +0000

Yeah, the appearance is selling the iPhone here in my town too. But the return rate is almost 50%. why? because the “phone” doesn’t cover the most basic of needs of the consumer. Something as simple as MMS is driving return rates up in my area. Guess functionality is more important than style/appearance.

I agree that there is no substance in the musicians being shat out from American Idol. But the presidential elections? Seriously? Name the last time we had a president take the reins firmly in hand and be proactive in running the country versus being reactive like the past few have been.

By: Martin

Martin — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:54:37 +0000

What is a Smartphone anyway, in the definitions used here?
Obviously the iPhone is, since Apple are included, and presumably all Blackberrys are. Nokia N-Series and Nokia E-Series? You’d think so.
Some of the numbered Nokias have similar if not greater functionality when compared to – for example – the iPhone. Are these Smartphones? Probably not.
LG phones are presumably not “smart”, and some Samsungs are.
Is it the OS that defines it?
In that case, the issue is probably that – if you like the way a company designs phones – there is so much convergence between Smartphones, Businessphones, Dumbphones, Musicphones and Allsingingalldancingphones that people who would prevoiusly have been Smartphone users are now buying other “classes” of phone.
For example, the Nokia 5800 has been compared with the iPhone (whether it does well in that comparison or not is not the point). It is presumably not included in the Smartphone sales.
So if a Nokia person buys this phone rather than a N96, then that means Nokia is losing Smartphone market share?
If someone chooses a 5800 rather than an iPhone, does that mean Apple is losing Smartphone market share?
Not sure that the term “Smartphone” is as relevant anymore as it may once have been.

By: StevenGlansburg

StevenGlansburg — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:49:38 +0000

Appearance means a lot. Love or hate Apple, you have to admit it looks far more aesthetically appealing that Symbian ever has. The appearance is selling these phones and in a world where that seems to mean more than substance (i.e. American Idol, Presidential elections) that is what phones companies need to start focusing on.

By: bitflung

bitflung — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:38:35 +0000

@Darwin
“That’s because Symbian is clunky [...]”

by clunky you mean poor visuals. yup. no real eye candy on most symbian user interfaces. note, however, that “Symbian” is to linux as “KDE” is to S60. that is, symbian doesn’t HAVE a user interface – the key noticeable differences between manufactures who sell symbian powered phones are in the user interfaces they choose, like how Fedora looks different than KUbuntu, etc.

“[..] and doesn’t do what most of the other OSes do out of the box without add-ons. [...]”

err – what? umm… i agree with Ryan H who posted, just before you, that ‘Symbian isn’t difficult to use and out of box features (on the device) can’t be beat by anything really.’

“[..] That and they only have one qwerty phone, which is not really what I want. [...]”

i googled ’symbian qwerty phone’ and got this as my first hit:
http://www.cnet.com.au/tag/qwerty-symbian.htm

just one qwerty phone? where do you live and why don’t they sell all these other qwerty symbian phones there? even nokia alone has a bunch of them: E90, E75, E71, E63…

“[..] I would love a combo of the N96 and E71, but I don’t really like either on their own.”

fair enough – i don’t like either of them on their own either. i want the N97 (another full qwerty nokia device, but it’s not shipping till june).

-bit

By: jonnybruha

jonnybruha — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:33:06 +0000

“Nokia OS sucks.”

LOL, what’s a Nokia OS? You mean Symbian? S40?

My next phone will have the “Nokia OS”, only on a Samsung. Nokia has really failed to innovate in handsets since the N95 and E71. Even the 4 month out N97 is behind and will fall behind more by the time it’s released, same with the N86.

Still, 41% of the ENTIRE market is still huge. Not as big as it has been in years prior, but still huge.