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@Hmmmm:
Big buttons? there is only 1 button, 1 switch and one volume toggle. I suppose next you are going to tell the iPhone is design over function….
The GUI is brilliant, and yes it flows so one dosen’t have to think about it too hard. Ease of use. Looks like you are the one who hit the nail on the head this time. Way to go, gold star for you. You can have your Nokia and eat it too…

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way to hit the nail on the head! The iphone is geared especially for the Homer Simpson type! Big buttons and a UI laid out so he dosen’t have to think too hard. No wonder the American public laps it up. Dumb it down for the masses. What a joke.

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@ Viren,
I’m glad you like the N82. Seems like you know a little about technology. I’d love to talk more. Email me at christexaport@sbcglobal.net. We’re obviously like minded.

@ Mike,
I’m well known on various mobile developer forums, and as a Symbian Freak, Android Freak, Symbian Freak Trusted Beta Tester, xda-developer form member, and analyst for PhoneReport, I know many of the top Symbian, Android, WinMo, multidiscipline, and even a few iPhone SDK developers, and they all have heard of me. Maybe we’ve met? What apps for the iPhone or S60 have you been a part of? I’d love you to contact me via email as well at christexaport@sbcglobal.net.

Now, to be honest, your statement about the two platforms is so uncharacteristic of any developer I’ve ever met. I’ll just respond and try to believe you’re being honest about your credentials, which I am reluctant to believe as truth. Please don’t be offended, and allow me to explain why I feel like this.

“S60 is like comparing a regular phone to a smartphone, with the iPhone being the smartphone.”

Huh?? In the smartphone world, and Nokia speak, a smartphone IS a mobile computer with voice technology, PC skills like multitasking, and an open policy on native apps installation independent of the manufacturer of the OS. The iPhone isn’t all of these, but fit loosely enough, I’ll avoid that argument. The iPhone is publicly recognized as a smartphone. However, the iPhone acts less like any computer I’ve ever used in comparison to S60.

Lets compare the two to a PC:

Multitasking? S60 wins.

Task management? S60 wins.

Multiformat media support? S60 wins.

Open API’s with ability of apps to share data? S60 wins.

User app creation and installation independent of the hardware or software manufacturer’s approval? S60 wins.

Free access to all hardware via the API’s, with the ability to use them to any purpose? S60 wins.

Ability to support many developer languages? S60 KILLS!

Ability to decide what function you wish your hardware to perform? S60 wins.

Ability to share all data via any connectivity port? S60 wins.

Ability to process large data files like high resolution images over 3 megapixels, SQL databases, etc.? S60 wins.

Now before I go further, I’ll get back to some of your mispoints. Desktop quality, or desktop apps? When you can take the Quake III PC game and run it on the iPhone, its just an iPhone. I run Quake III on my N95 8gb.

As for specific apps, this is a developers choice not always driven by the OS capabilities, but financial agreements and training. Most medical apps are written for WinMo anyway, and few for the iPhone. But I’m more impressed that even in the outposts of the Sahara, a young child can use video calling and do emergency surgery on someone all via video streamed via Qik, or a TV show via PiiPTV. Ability to access data at the users will, not Apple’s, is S60’s forte.

But look at the App Store and look at the Symbian app catalog. Where’s the SMB apps, cell network tools, SQL tools, CRM apps? I just see games, apps to mask the weak browser, and animated lighters and popcorn. A few gems, but not many. Hope none of the apps mentioned are your work, as they’re all cool, but nothing to increase productivity like a traditional computer. Exactly what makes an app desktop class to you? I like apps that utilize as much of my processing power and hardware to make my life easy, save time, and increase productivity, all while keeping my PC out of the equation.

Now why isn’t a medical app like you described not possible? What API’s does Symbian lack to do the job? We know its not hardware. TI OMAP is incomparable in this aspect.

Now I did mention alot of software features, but those features are ones iPhone users have begged for from day one! And neither Apple nor the developer community has stepped up. So I believe neither you nor your iPhone developer cohorts are very good at fulfilling user requests. Can’t find any of those software features in the App Store after 2 years.

In contrast, since the N95 came out, we’ve added Flash in browser, ODP, screen rotation, PUSH email, geotagging, threaded messaging, and alot more! The N97 allows copy and paste in the browser, something we asked for. Nokia takes the mobile PC where users want to go, not Apple. Its like Apple has a fighter jet without wings, and won’t allow anyone to make any since they compete with the default wheels. Stupid. What PC company outright stifles such innovation? Oh yeah. Apple, the epitome of walled gardens.

Now let me roast you real quick. The iPhone has sold about 8-10 million devices. The N95 has sold about 15 million, not including the N81, E90, or other high end Nokia, Symbian, and LG S60 devices. That’s why Nokia sells 3x’s what Apple does, even minus featurephones. We’ll see how the numbers skew once the next generation 5th Edition models come out. I’m willing to bet people alot of people opt for a cheaper 5800 or like-priced N97 over the iPhone in markets where they compete. Nokia isn’t dying, its evolving. It needed to slow down to focus on better stuff, and be sure to properly raise the bar. I think they’ve done ok. Still ahead, still better, still able to put out more and absorb minor blows from Apple and RIM. They DID gain marketshare after the iPhone at first, up to 70% at one point! We’ve only released one true flagship and some variants since iPhone’s first phone. Since the 3G, they’ve only done damage in America, and little anywhere else. The big winner was RIM anyway.

Now no one knows what processor the N97 runs, so you sound pretty silly on that note. I suspect either a Tegra or TI OMAP3 setup, which can’t be beat when combined with Symbian! It does more at 350MHz than others do at twice the speed. And AGPS is on all Symbian device with GPS, nothing new except to you and Apple. And the N95 had a glass screen. Capacitive won’t work for cold or missing fingers. Better to do a resistive screen well, which they’ve done. Choice is better, despite what Apple fooled you to believe. Nokia isn’t HTC. They do things right.

The 32gb of memory aren’t a big deal to S60 users. We’ve always had expandable memory. And who wants an Atom processor over an ARM?? Shouldn’t a developer worth his salt know about battery life and power consumption? And we both know Apple is all about thin, and today thin means bad camera. Apple couldn’t spell camera or video if I let them peek in the dictionary!

@ Mr. Hopkins,
I consider the iPhone that hot chick next door. Only thing is when I get close, she’s missing teeth, can’t read, walk and chew gum, or speak English. I’ll pass. I like my girls to be smart, even if she’s a little thick. In fact, I like my girls thick, and my phones the same. Any good camera has depth and thickness, and won’t be very thin anytime soon.

@ JakeyBoy,
Major changes from iPhone 1 to 3G?? Mostly cosmetic changes. Is that how tech companies get down? I review alot of phones of all makes, and probably have as many readers as BGR, so I won’t defer to them. I don’t think they have as much Symbian knowledge as I do anyway. It was us that hacked the S60 3rd Edition OS, for crying out loud. I’m confident in my assessment.

I have experience with the iPhone OS, and am a Symbian specialist with extensive experience since its my OS of choice. I can compare these devices because I know the OS. S60 5th has no code break from 3rd Edition, and besides the Active Standby social widgets and Touch UI, its the same OS that bested the iPhone worldwide before the N97 ever came out.

@ Shaun,
The screen size and resolution of the iPhone don’t match the E90 or my TV. Is it better now? And the UI has little effect on web browsing. All you need is a way to enter URL’s. Was that honestly such a bigger delight on the iPhone? Enough to give up video, web apps, and animation?

I suspect it has alot to do with what sites you commonly browse. I guess iPhone users don’t like web based media, and only know how to pay for it instead via iTunes. That’s something that just struck me. I’m an RSS addict. Alot of my web tastes aren’t media heavy either, as I suspect most bloggers do. Maybe this is why Flash doesn’t matter, so the blog community loves it. It’s great for browsing analysis sites and news feeds. This is also why the iPhone is big for Facebook, and not the more media savvy MySpace. Tastes…

You need to learn that video is everywhere, not just iTunes. Why can we find so much video online on the desktop, but not the mobile? I say the limitations of where you can go with the browser and the iTunes dependence are to blame, and not a limitation for my device.

Sounds like the N97 will end your iPhone fancy, unless iTunes and the N97 don’t play nice. Many S60 users have figured ways of using their iTunes stuff on the N95, so it shouldn’t be an issue.

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Now, if the iPhone is so wonderful (not suggesting that it isn’t) to those that have and cherish it, why not use it for all multimedia functions? As I have stated earlier, I have seen people carry an iPod, iPhone and that video thing they make…why not just the phone?

As for other MP3 players falling by the wayside. I don’t think that is the case, once cell phones were able to double as MP3 players people (such as myself) opted to carry ONE device instead of multiples. Therefore, Mr. Jobs gained mind control and popularity via brilliant marketing. Once people begin to realize they are being given the same product with a little additive to stimulate curiosity things will change.

and for the record, I dont hate iphones they just don’t offer the things that I NEED and require from a smartphone.

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You make some really good points regarding the N series ability to play back a variety of video formats and the added functionality of the web browser – and as i said in my post the N95 does these things well.

Where I feel the iphone excels in these two areas are;

Web browsing – the screen size, resolution and UI make up for the shortcomings in flash etc. Of course i would like it to do these things and when i first started using the iphone I did not believe it would replace my N95 for web browsing but over time i just found myself picking up the iphone for this feature.

Video playback – again screen size played an important role in my using the iphone for video rather than my N95. Access to good video content (via itunes) which is easier to obtain and to load also made a difference.

Dont get me wrong I am not about to give up my N95, and i suspect the N97 will address some of these issues (particularly screen size and resolution)

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And in the same light why don’t we add WinMo to the list since it’s a US company, even though the units are manufactored by overseas third-party companies, just like the iphone.

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Steve Jobs is obviously not an idiot. I’m just trying to seperate myself from the Apple “fanboys”. I do own and iPhone, I do not however any other Apple product.

As far as the jump from 1st gen to 2nd gen on the iPhone, the added features and design change were significant in the “Apple World”, even when talking about the software changes that came along. Yes, the added 3g, but they also added an AGPS chip and other major design changes(metal to plastic change, batter soldiered in versus removable wihout soldiering…). I still have my 1st gen iPhone as a backup, but will use the 2nd gen iPhone because it is far better in design.

I’ll admit, the Nokia phone looks might sweet. But I can almost guaruntee that once I get it in my hands, that sweetness will be overshadowed by the sour OS. I’ll post a retract if i’m wrong.

What ever happened to supporting USA companies? I think Obama should toss his blackberry and get himself an iPhone. Sure Apple makes its products mostly overseas, but just like Vizio, they can move their manufacturing closer to being all here. We need companies like this to thrive in this tough economic time.

If everyone wants Android, don’t they know that right now there are iPhones with Android? Not fully realised, but they are out there. Pocket computer versus Smart phone is the best comparison i’ve read between the iPhone and the N97.

I cannot, and neither should any of you, compare the N97 to ANY phone until i’ve tested it out. So at that, I rest. Let the Boy Genius sort it out.

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@ JakeyBoy…Please tell me what leap the iPhone made when it jumped to the 3G version besides adding 3G…you can’t because it is the same phone so why would it have taken 2 years to accomplish?

Steve Jobs is not an idiot because if he was the iPod would not exist, and neither would the iPhone or macs. Yes he is not the brainchild behind them all, nor is he the marketing genius either. However, he is the CEO of the company and that is who u credit with any product that does well.

The iPhone, IMO, will never touch Nokia in terms of marketshare. This is simply because Apple is only good in America. Abroad people either hate it or have never seen one. And that goes for all the Apple products too, including their PCs. Windows is successful abroad because of familiarity and longevity, the same goes for Nokia’s cell phones too. Apple is really playing catch up no matter how well the iPhone is doing. There are always great technologies that change the market. Windows was one, the RAZR was another, the ipod was another and now so is the iPhone. However, the iPhone should become another razr soon. This is simply because everyone and their mother wants one and most likely does have one, just like an ipod.

You can’t enter an NYC subway station without seeing an iPod, iPod touch or iPhone somewhere in the vicinity. This is the double-edged sword many companies have come to see, however. The RAZR had the same phenomenon when it came out. So much so that up until about a month ago it was still the best-selling phone; and guess who bested it this time around…the iPhone. It will only be a matter of time until something else comes around and does the same thing to the iPhone so we’ll just have to wait and see. It has a great UI but just like their laptops, it is so restrictive that people will soon shun it because there is no costumization. They only provide you with apps to compensate but that does not address the main problem.

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you’re correct. I made a bad choice of words. I didn’t mean that it doesn’t go all the way so far as ability, features, etc… But S60 is like your girl, been together for years, u know everything about her. Every now and then she throws on sumthin sexy but it’s still the same ole girl. No complaints tho. Iphone tho is the sexy neighbor who got u rushing to take a half empty bag of trash out when her car pull up. LOL! But trust me I love S60. Hell, I type most of my comments while surfing from my E62, and my previous phone was a 6682. Was saving for the E71, but i’ma wait for the N97…maybe.

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I see a winner here and loser. Which one do you think will win?

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It all comes down to this one question? Do we want Smartphones or Pocket Computers?

If the answer is Smartphones, then Nokia have a better than average chance of keeping their majority market share well into the next decade. If the answer is Pocket Computers, then Nokia have about a 5% chance of survival unless the start making Android devices with the next 6 months.

The ‘iPhone is a toy and Americans are Smartphone idiots’ brigade can complain all they like, it won’t make even the slightest difference. When it comes to computing, North American firms are a completely dominate force.

OPK, please do the right thing and sign for Android before it’s too late!

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Being a software developer. I develop for S60 as well as OSX on the iphone and am now dabbling in the Android segment.

You miss the whole point of the iphone. The N97 is vastly inferior to the iphone. The most important aspect of the iphone is the OS. S60 is like comparing a regular phone to a smartphone. The iphone being a smartphone. Features are just that “features”.

The iphone is essentially a mini-computer, not a smartphone. The N97 is a smartphone. The iphone can run desktop quality applications like google earth, Netters anatomy etc. It can help doctors diagnose a patient with any of the Radiology applications available in real time, and change from a CT scan to a Xray with just a swipe of the finger. It can run Lexi-comp in conjunction with a Hospitals mainframe and sync with their version of Lexi-Comp running on their computers in real time.Lexi-comp is a very powerful application that comes in many forms all available on the iphone. This is a desktop class application, a very powerful application.

The applications bring so much functionality to the Iphone that are not possible on a Symbian device or any other smartphone for that matter save for the G1 which also runs a desktop class OS. So when you try to bring up copy-and paste, MMS, Flash, etc. you are bring up features, which can be added to the iphone at any time with a simple firmware update. And pale in comparison to the functionality the desktop class applications bring to the iphone.

There is not one N series device that is out selling the iphone, not one device that Nokia is selling that is selling better than the iphone. The iphone is almost outselling the whole Nseries lineup “combined’. It is now the second best selling smartphone OS in the world. Symbian is dying, and Nokia is trying to save it. Instead they should invest in OS 2008 and make that their new OS. How much market share did Symbian gain since the Iphone was released? None.Zero. Now why is that?

Also, the processor on the N97 is a joke, AGPS the 3g iphone has had that for a while now. Resistive touch screen, no thanks. Optical quality glass with a capacitive touch screen is far superior. 32 GB wow that’s great, but the next iphone will be out by the time the N97 arrives, so not much of a big deal there. How about a 1ghz intel atom processor and a 5MP camera to match which Apple can do easily.

Nokia is coming to the game with far too little and far to late.Your living in a dream world, time to wake up and smell the coffee.

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Capacative Touch screen is neighther a new technology nor a revolution in fact it is so 1997! In those days we used to have it as an option. An option of capacitive / resistive touch screen for multimedia kiosks. The screens (films) were “pasted” over standard CRT monitors (yeah they were XGA 800×600 monitors).

Surprisingly, no one in those days utilized the potential of Z axis, even though the touch screen drivers supported it. I would assume that it was mainly because the desktop processors were 150 – 300 MHz (Yes MEGA Hertz) SLOW and it required a LOT of power to process multimedia and fade effects.

Capacitive touchscreens later on failed to make a mark on market due to the fact that they were ‘in accurate’ when compared to ‘accurate’ resistive screens. Capacitive touch screens were also ‘in accurate’ as it used to register multiple touches.

Major feature those days was ability to ‘draw’ things with a ‘pen’ on resistive screen due to its accuracy! people soon cashed in and a lot of touch PDA’s and later on WinMo Phones launched.

Apple in 2005-2006 with iPhone (and 500+ MHz) processor finally utilized the ‘z-axis’ with the available processing power and this combined with a good UI effects… and whoa there you go, an outright success.

Thanks to Steve Jobs for turning ‘failure’ old technology in to a ’success’.

Yes did any one forget the Apple Newton? :p … just teasin … Apple iPhone was a product of capacitive touch screen, Newton & revolutionary OSX.

by the way I am a N82 user and absolutely love it. Wish Nokia would come up with a N Series candybar phone with detachable keyboard.

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And for Mr. Hopkins,
your assessment is backwards. The iPhone will do well skimming the surface, but the Nseries are well known for their completeness, and they definitely go farther than any iPhone. I put an Nseries from ‘06 against the iPhone 3G and its not a landslide affair at all. Against the current Nseries and this N97? No competition. And I review phones for a living, by the way, not just use them a few minutes or weeks. The iPhone is nice, but no beast. Try an Nseries for 3 months with a couple firmware boosts and you’ll see.

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Europeans are so lucky in the mobile phone world.

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“People said that about the ipod too, that other mp3 players will come out and take over.

Well, others have come and gone, but the interface/form factor of the ipod have made it one of its kind and thus still the most popular to date. I’d say the same is going for the iphone as well.”

I agree about the popularity of the iPod, however I also know there are many iPod owners like myself that would use their iPod for batting practice if we could transfer our music to another mp3 device. Unfortunately, every time I hook my iPod up to any other computer, besides my 2004 Dell inspiron 1150 (my initial iPod hookup), I’m warned about losing all my music if I continue. I’ve found a few workarounds, but still, I can’t delete half the garbage I’ve got on my iPod without sacrificing EVERYTHING else that’s on it.

iPod = FAIL!

I’ll buy that silly Sansa MicroSD music player before I chain myself with another iPod

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People said that about the ipod too, that other mp3 players will come out and take over.

Well, others have come and gone, but the interface/form factor of the ipod have made it one of its kind and thus still the most popular to date. I’d say the same is going for the iphone as well.

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