Comments on: Additional details about Verizon’s Mandatory Data Plans emerge

By: brian

brian — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:59:42 +0000

What the heck are you talking about? I have a Samsung i760 which is a PDA and oh yeah, a browswer that I use with wifi connectivity. I don’t need data everywhere I go. I would like a windows operating system at my fingertips that does much more than surf the web. I have full contacts with name, address with full sync capabilities with active sync. What? Verizon wants me to get data for an extra 30 bux even though I would never use it? I have been grandfathered in with my phone but now, any future phone I would like to get with pda functions is shot to hell and I feel sorry for these phone manufacturers that will lose a lot of sales because people don’t want to pay data. I sure hope ATT, Tmobile, Sprint don’t follow Verizon’s terrible mishap.

Brian
Long time Verizon customer

By: William

William — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:05:46 +0000

Hello all

I would like to get a TP2 from Verizon for my business as they are my current carrier but with this mandatory data plan…no way!

And with this excuses that they need to subsidized to pay for lower price phones, and the other one about how customers were incurring accidental charges, or the best one, that these devices need this connection to perform other non data connection services such as the phone

I mean come on, I don’t know how long these carriers are going to continue to think that only uneducated little children use there phones so that can pawn off any excuses they want. Its time they realized the all the little ignorant children they suckered into being addicted to cell phones are all grown up now and a lot more educated.

At any rate this whole thing is just so disgusting that I am planning to write the FCC and Senator Kohl about this but I was just wondering about a few things as I am now just finding out about this so I just want to see if I have this correct.

As I understand it back around Nov of 2008 Verizon implemented this.

But at that time no other of the major carriers did this too?

The reason I ask is that I have seen quite a few posts from all the nice people who state, hey if you don’t like it go to so and so carrier, but in looking for this phone I see that everyone now does this.

Actually I would think this very fact would even be more fuel for fire with the FCC as if one company started a money making scam and then all the others followed suit because is was not against any current regulation…well?

Also does anyone know for sure that if it is still the case that a device such as the TP2 purchased for governmental use does not require the plan?

Thanks for any info.

P.S. here is some info on Senator Kohls investigation: http://techdailydose.nationaljournal.com/2009/08/kohl-lauds-fcc-wireless-indust.php

By: orangetux

orangetux — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:24:10 +0000

What makes a smartphone “smart” is the PDA functionality, not the fact that it has internet services. Ever consider that a consumer may want a nice organizer that syncs to their PC and that you can install apps on AND a phone in one? I think its ridiculous to force the data plan, what happened to “choice”

By: Compguy65

Compguy65 — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 01:40:24 +0000

Just discovered that the current FCC investigation into wireless companies was because of the efforts and concerns of Senator Herb Kohl from Wisconsin. He is the Chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition Policy and Consumer Rights. Since his web contact form is only for Wisconsin residents, here is his email for the general public to contact him, from the U.S. Senate website: senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov

I would think he would want to know what consumers think about this policy.

By: Compguy65

Compguy65 — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:26:51 +0000

All the major US wireless companies have recently started requiring a data plan of at least $30/month for smartphone users. On my smartphone, I have wifi and wish to pay per kilobyte, an option afforded to non-smartphone customers (smartphone versus non-smartphone determination is quite arbitrary, has nothing to do with the phone’s capabilities, and is based only on a list of operating systems, since many feature phones access the internet just like smartphones).

The carriers state their reason for this policy is because smartphones must use data, and by having a mandatory charge of $30/month, users will avoid surprise overages. However, smartphones can be perfectly functional using either 3G or wifi and it is entirely possible to turn off data on my smartphone and turn it on whenever I need to. I have successfully done this for months without incident. I use less than 1 megabyte of data a month by occasionally checking my email or google maps when I need to, and relying on WIFI the rest of the time. This amounts to about a dollar a month for pay-per-kb. In Windows Mobile all you do to turn off the 3G data and turn it back on is go to Settings – Connections – Connections, then Advanced, then Select Networks. Click New… then type the word “none” where it says “enter a name for these settings”. Then OK. Your AT&T connection will still be in the dropdown as My ISP if you ever need 3G, but your data will be OFF, as in you will not be consuming one byte of data through wap.cingular after that setting is changed. The only data charges you will ever incur will be SMS & MMS if you leave that setting to default on “none” (or whatever you name it) with nothing in the modem settings. I don’t know how to do this for Iphone or BB but for anyone who has even moderate technical proficiency, that’s not that difficult in Windows Mobile. It is complete bull that voice service would need to be tied to 3G.

Paying for an unlimited data plan for two smartphones over the course of a two-year contract (my spouse uses a smartphone for organization and games, not for data) would cost us over $1400 – for a service we do not want or need. It is worse for me to be charged $30/month for years “to avoid surprises” than it is for me to simply not be charged for an unwanted product. For a family of two parents and two teenagers with Iphones, think about it – it would come to over $7200 over five years for a service they can’t opt out of, even though their phones are fully functional with wifi. Saying that smartphones require unlimited 3G data is false. Unlimited data through 3G networks is a subscription feature that should be a choice. Data blocks should also be a choice to prevent overages (for people not confident about their ability to effectively disable and re-enable their smartphone’s 3G). You don’t see wireless carriers shutting off voice service to prevent overages – are we all going to be switched to mandatory unlimited voice minutes “to protect us” or mandatory GPS “so our phones can reach their full capability”?

All the carriers can now use the IMEI information sent over the voice network to ENFORCE this policy. This means that people who were grandfathered in could be slapped with a mandatory unlimited data plan anytime their SIM is detected in a smartphone during a “data sweep”. This is in the AT&T terms of service (that you agree to being “upgraded” to the more “appropriate billing plan for your device” at any time). This is already actually happening for Iphone users.

I believe that refusing to allow smartphone users to subscribe to voice services without an accompanying unlimited data plan constitutes TYING (see antitrust laws). Tying is when the consumer is obligated to purchase an unwanted product or service in order to receive a wanted product or service. If all the major US wireless carriers institute and enforce tying, no one will be able to “vote with their wallet” anymore.

This is not for customer satisfaction, this is for major profit and it is a policy that hurts the free market. If you do not agree with this policy – regardless of whether it directly affects you, regardless of who your carrier is, or what you are being charged per month – you have the right to voice your opinion by filing a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, Federal Communications Commission, Department of Justice, Consumers Union, and your elected representatives.

You can file a complaint with the FTC at https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/
regarding collusion and/or bundling.

You can also complain to the FCC at http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm

By: BRITTANY

BRITTANY — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:19:47 +0000

what about the samsung i730, does it require the data plan, or was it made before the nov. 14th cut off? if it does require the plan does any one know how much it is?

By: Crazy MoFo

Crazy MoFo — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:09:28 +0000

Well, regardless of the economy being in the tank- that fact remains the the US is deemed a free country- and the freedom is based on the rights to pursue happiness as long as we don’t infringe on other pursuits. TRICKY situation for corporate america to make money for services and crap on customer for outrages rates… BOTTOM LINE – no one is boycotting- it’s still respected that people DESIRE cel phones and it is not a necessity / it’s a luxury- SADLY !!! WE KEEP FORKING OUT THE CASH- THEN THEY WILL STILL CHARGE YOU !!!
if I was going to sell something, I’d want the most I could get out of it – just as you- look at CARS

By: Gretel

Gretel — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:54:50 +0000

BTW, this doesn’t just apply to phones you purchase from Verizon. I bought a used Blackberry Curve from an individual and Verizon stated that they wouldn’t activate it without charging the $30 monthly fee for the data plan. I spoke to numerous Verizon reps and got a plethora of different answers from all of them. One (who I’ll refer to as Hugh Lyon Sackov) stated that it was impossible for them to block data on a Blackberry.

By: Fritz

Fritz — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:10:35 +0000

If you can, take a few moments to email Lowell McAdam, the CEO of Verizon Wireless about this. You can get his address on the VZW site – just search for “Executive Leadership”. Of course he won’t contact you back, but someone from that office will (I usually get a call back in 2-5 days). Maybe if enough people contact them, they might change their policy.

I’ve been sure to propose alternative plans such as giving people the option of either a Mandatory Data plan or a Mandatory Data Block plan.

BTW – So far at least, AT&T is not demanding you have a data plan for their Samsung and HTC phones. However, I’m sure this will change if they see VZW getting away with it.

By: MikeW

MikeW — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:17:12 +0000

My vx6700 died last week and I purchased an HTC Ozone as an upgrade on my previous 2yr plan. For the last two years I existed happily without data service, getting on the internet via wi-fi on my home network and hotspots all over the place, doing all the cool things like checking e-mail, finding the nearest gas station etc without having to use Verizon’s data service. I never had an “accident” either. But I hardly ever used the wi-fi anyway – I used the phone as a PDA – keeping my appointments, notes, contacts, using Word or Excel – I would have been happy even if it didn’t have wi-fi – it was all good just having a phone and a PDA all in one box. So now they’re forcing me to use their $30/month data service if I want to keep the phone (it’s a pretty nice phone, BTW). Well, it’s going back, and I’m canceling my service just to make a point. Sure the competition is doing the same thing, but that still doesn’t make it right. I’ll be back to dumb phones and a separate PDA, but at least I won’t be rewarding Verizon for making me pay for something that I wouldn’t use.

By: buck

buck — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:01:44 +0000

Dont agree that pda/smart phones are worthless without one, had a htc window mobile phones for years without a plan, use wifi when i need to connect, its everywhere and free. love to sync files contact, etc between work and home, and the unbelievable amount of applications i have, (free with window mobile). this phone cost me 9.99 a month, a replacement would triple the cost for the same style phone, $720 more over the 2 yr life that sucks.

By: lindsey

lindsey — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:32:02 +0000

so i found a moto Q (smartphone) on ebay that was was purchased BEFORE 2009 and the person just ended the contract. if i purchased this and replaced it for my broken phone, saying that it was my dads or somthing, do i still have to pay 30$ a month?

By: fritz

fritz — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:55:23 +0000

I really wish these data die-hards would take a moment to think before they post. So you are saying that a Dare can run windows mobile programs? That it can sync with outlook so you have your contacts and calendar always available? Does the Dare have WiFi?

If that isn’t true, then a “Dare or Whatever” would not make me happy. That would be like me telling you not to get a PDA phone because all you need is a laptop. Most of us want a PDA phone for all of its features – not just for data or voice. And, saying that one feature is more important than another is only a matter of opinion.

By: StormChaser

StormChaser — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:08:34 +0000

Not the same thing at all. Data services are core to what these devices do. Voice is merely an add on feature. If you don’t want the data services then why do you get the phone in the first place? Get yourself a Dare or whatever and be happy with that.

-1

By: fritz

fritz — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:39:45 +0000

Well, I just received a phone call from Polly at Verizon and a letter from the FCC stating they are looking into how Verizon’s new policy fits with the Fed’s “Fair Use” clause for the new bandwidth they purchased. I’m hoping that, because of the FCC’s early demand that people be allowed data only plans with their PDA/Smart phones, that the reverse is true and that we will be allowed to have voice only plans as well.

Since Verizon does offer data only plans for PDA’s, I’m not sure why people are suprised that you might want a voice only plan as well.

By: forseriouspji

forseriouspji — Sun, 12 Apr 2009 02:53:39 +0000

@pji – You’ve clearly never compared your touch pro to others. Just take a look at the keyboard and tell me you’d rather have an arrow key in between n and m, lose a row, lose a front camera, etc. It’s a world of wifi, verizon deserves to go bankrupt for this unreasonable plan. and pji, you should learn what your talking about before showing your face in comments again.

By: Joe

Joe — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:13:01 +0000

So I have a nice Voyager with the Nationwide Premium plan including unlimited data,text….Vcast/Vnav. Right! So my brother gives me his old XV6700 Apache with WM6.1 on it. I called today and asked could I just activate and use with no problems. Their answer was “It is not Compatible with your plan”. WTF. I PAY for unlimited data through my phone (Not Tethering) and this PPC has the verizon logo on it, Same towers are used. Same technology. They said I would have to drop to a “Nationwide Select Plan” then add the data plan on top of that. IT’S THE SAME FRIGGIN FEATURES IDIOTS. I’m sick of BREW and $1.99 for this and that. My PDA is totally customizable and for that verizon wants to hit you hard below the belt. So bend over PPC users. It’s a MONEY MAKING GAME. By the by WHO reads 20 pages of terms and conditions which are ALWAYS presented in legal speak just to see how screwed over you will get if Verizon “Feels” like it. Remember, Terms and conditions may change anytime and you signed it!

By: Sovak75

Sovak75 — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 05:25:55 +0000

Not on VZW you can’t. No matter where you got the phone whenther IMEI is entered into the system the it detects that it is a smartphone and makes you add the data plan.

By: quest

quest — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:28:32 +0000

So if I buy a smart phone from ebey can I activate this phone without paying the $30 a month?

By: John

John — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:37:36 +0000

Wow, Verizon is really beginning to PISS ME OFF!!! I just bought a smart phone, and was thinking of getting it switched to prepaid. I think we should all contact the ceo of Verizon and tell him that if they don’t release all restrictions on Windows Mobile Smart Phones then we are going to switch to AT&T. (secretly I hate AT&T, but now I hate Verizon as well!)

By: matt

matt — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:33:34 +0000

Do you think, as an independent multi-carrier dealer of wireless service (read: churn), that I would benefit from this policy? hmmm. Well, I would get the extra cheese from porking someones plan with extraneous features, true. But what about the HTC Touch Pros that I have in stock? The wi-fi radio WAS a great selling point, along with all the other great features, but it will never be an i-Touch at twice the price. My clients trust me to help them navigate the ridiculously resticted and confusing world of cell phone service contracts, and Verizon doesn’t pay me a fraction of what they have made that worth>.< Now, I will probably resort to dumping them at cost so I don’t bounce any checks… or I suppose I could slam some poor shmuck into a contract that winds up costing as much as an i-Touch (or equivalent?), a laptop (or netbook?) and a messaging service (g-voice?), with plenty left over for a less expensive voice service (like anything else?)!

By: daniel b

daniel b — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:31:07 +0000

>> Dude get over it already. You aren’t gonna change them.

Nice attitude. Tell it to all the people getting their refunds from the “early termination” class action Verizon just lost.

>>They haven’t broken any laws they have the right to require anything they want for their phones

For “their” phones, sure…but this isn’t about them selling phones—it’s about people buying compatible phones elsewhere and having unjustifiable surcharges imposed.

Remember, cellular companies have been granted the use of limited public airwaves, and are therefore obligated by the FCC to follow certain “public interest” rules to prevent monopolistic practices. So…it’s not clear that they aren’t breaking laws when they impose fees other than those required for the reasonable compensation for their services. They’re our airwaves after all.

By: Sovak75

Sovak75 — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 03:38:26 +0000

lol @feitz

Dude get over it already. You aren’t gonna change them. They haven’t broken any laws they have the right to require anything they want for their phones just as you have the right to get a different phone or go to another carrier.

By: fritz

fritz — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:58:19 +0000

Thanks Daniel, that is a great idea.

I’ve started a “Stop Verizon Wireless’ Mandatory Data Plan” petition at http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stopverizon, but really considered that to be a futile gesture.

I’m glad there are people out there with a better idea on how to handle these types of situations then just ranting online, creating online petitions and threatening lawsuits.

By: daniel b

daniel b — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:26:17 +0000

I don’t know if there’s anything court-wise to be done upon further reflection, unless a significant amount of people have been burned (ie, they have bought a smart phone somewhere other than Verizon, didn’t want to add data, and were financially hurt by Verizon forcing the $30.00 per month data plan down their throat). I suspect most people just go to another vendor, though, and can’t therefore show financial harm.

However, this does sound like a potential FCC issue, as it is responsible for enforcing open access rules. Since Verizon recently agreed to Open Access for it’s newly won 700 mhz spectrum, I would be hard pressed to see how the FCC would allow Verizon to charge an additional fee just for the type of phone being used if data functions are not being requested, just voice. It would be like them telling me I have to pay more because my phone is red. It has no bearing to the service being requested and amounts to a surcharge. I urge anyone who feels this way to put in a complaint at the FCC web site: (http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm)

Takes about 5 minutes, and if they get numerous complaints they may well respond.

By: Nolan

Nolan — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:11:56 +0000

Anyone plan on taking action on this or heard of someone going after VW in civil court? If so count me in. If not, let’s get started now. I went to these retards today (I was told I can finally upgrade). The toolbag at the counter could not understand that I did not need the data service. No shit, He said, “you have to have this to make phone calls”. I need the storm for a phone and PDA for medical ref. vs the old phone/pda I have. I don’t need or have the time to deal with some HS dropout f–knut who is only following orders.

Cheers,
Nolan

By: daniel b

daniel b — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:33:19 +0000

I can see them requiring a data plan when they give a discount on a smartphone. I can even see them requiring a data plan when they -don’t- give a discount on a smartphone. That’s Verizon’s right as a vendor of phones.

What they should NOT be allowed to do is force a data plan when someone purchases a phone, smart or otherwise, from another venue (such as Ebay). If the phone is voice compatible with their network, and all that’s requested is a voice plan, what is Verizon’s rationale for charging a significant monthly fee based strictly on the type of phone–not the services requested?

This seems to violate government mandated rules on open access to cellular networks–ie, Verizon is restricting compliant devices by charging extra fees without justification.

And for that, a class action suit may well be in the offing.

By: fritz

fritz — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:42:19 +0000

If you want to see a change in this policy you need to let them know how you feel.

Contacting customer service (Dial *611 from your cell phone (800) 922-0204) will at least alert them of the number of people dissatisfied with this new policy, but even the supervisor’s don’t have any power. It is probably best to send an email to their complaint department. The link is under Contact Us -> Send an email

Whether you agree or disagree with the need for a data plan with a pda phone, the removal of choices by any company should always be viewed with concern.

By: Bob

Bob — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 22:41:20 +0000

To who said, “What is the point of a smartphone if it doesn’t have a dataplan to make it, you know, smart?” Remember it is a smartphone/PDA. Some people want the phone for the PDA – Windows Mobile 6 (Word, Excel, etc…). I now carry a basic phone and a iPAQ PDA. I use Excel to enter data from various locations for my buisness. I would like to combine the phone & PDA into one device. I hardwire sync with my computer later. I don’t need the data plan for anything I do! I’ll be made to pay $30 a month for something I don’t have a use for. Whereas others don’t need the PDA part, I don’t need the smartphone (& data) part.

By: Antonio

Antonio — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 21:05:29 +0000

The WORST part of this whole thing is Im paying Verizon for FIOS!! If I use my Omnia to connect to MY WI-FI, Verizon gets to charge me an additional 30 bucks on top of what they charge me for the internet connection in the first place!! Its such crap! How can they get away with this??

I should be able to use my smartphone the same way I would use an iPaq… Connect to a wi-fi hotspot, sync my email, surf the web. I dont need data access when im not in a hotspot.

No matter how VZW tries to justify it, thres no reason for me to have a dataplan, Im in a hotspot most of my day, I dont need broadband access!!

Assholes!