Internal Verizon Wireless document: iPhone 3G is a scam and we’re better
Leave it up to our wireless carriers to use Afghan tactics to try and con convince current and potential customers to stay or sign up for service, right? We just got our hands on an internal VZW doc that was distributed to agents which breaks down the iPhone 3G data plan and price. It’s actually pretty comical with Verizon telling agents the iPhone 3G doesn’t support turn-by-turn GPS navigation (which it doesn’t at the moment) but all Verizon data devices do. Why is that funny? Well, we’d pay to not use Verizon’s craptastic GPS software. Another one? Verizon inaccurately stating that “There is an assumption that the new iPhone’s data package will include all data – IT DOES NOT!!” Oh, VZW… maybe if you didn’t pass on the phone you wouldn’t be spreading this madness. At least you have Thunder soon, no?
Thanks, Harris!
Sometime I cry when I hear someone insulting my wireless carrier
Seriously, you can post here without knowing a thing can’t you?
CDMA is technologically better than GSM, if you disagree with that go ask an unbiased engineer.
GSM has much more global coverage, basically because Europe mandated it. Everyone is fine with that to avoid royalities to Qualcomm.
3G refers to Third Generation. 2G is Second Generation (ie CDMA, GSM, TDMA). LTE is a potential 4G solution, as is WiMax.
Verizon does not need a GSM infrastructure and will never have one.
@Mike, Qualcom is the largest chip supplier to cell phone manufacturers in the world. They are bigger than TI (who is number 2) by about $800M. So you just proved that you don’t know anything.
Info: I was referring to the legal trouble Qualcom has/had. Qualcom makes more than just cellphone chips.
I know what 3G stands for. It gets bastardized at every turn. What I was alluding to was that HSPA has more speed leeway than EVDO Rev A.
I hold my undergrad in Comp Eng from Penn State, my MS in ACSM from University of Pennsylvania and I have my PE’s license.
Uhh, and GSM is still better than CDMA. And you can lick my balls after my morning run, sunshine.
I understand the whole “start from scratch” approach that 4G is taking wrt LTE. Its the way everything is going nowadays. All IP based.
I didn’t say Verizon NEEDED a GSM infrastructure I was challenging EVDO Rev A as a 3G standard because it doesn’t touch HSPA or HSPA+ in terms of speed (and the actual standard forming project: 3GPP (utms) vs 3GPP2 (evdo)).
Trust me, you don’t want to throw down. I don’t lose.
Mike, is this what you wrote…”Qualcomm isn’t making much of anything at the present moment.”?
Is there any truth to that at all?
The legal problems Qualcom had were concerning royalty payments and patents. It did not concern its chip business, which actually operates under a completely seperate business unit which is the largest mobile chip supplier in the world.
When you are comparing HSPA to EVDO Rev A which version of HSPA are you looking at? EVDO Rev A has a higher upload speed than HSDPA.
HSUPA does have an even higher upload speed and just a little bit lower download speed than EVDO Rev B. If you can find the coverage.
HSPA+ has great upload and download speeds, but only one network in the world has it (in Australia) and it just went online.
And GSM has a lower QOS and coverage area than CDMA (among other things). The coverage question really isn’t close. The two big advantages of GSM, more global acceptance driven by Europe’s adoption of GSM (as opposed to the US carriers using different technologies), and the use of SIM cards.
As I said before, talk to an engineer, but this time I’ll add talk to a Electrical Engineer.
You don’t think EVDO Rev A is a 3G standard? 3.1Mb/s down and 1.8Mb/s up don’t qualify? Okay.
So re-read those white pages and websites than read some more. You spent some time in college, so I am guessing you learned as some point to quote more than one source. Maybe than you can present some arguements so you “don’t lose”.
Mad Mike lost credibility when he said, that he gets 7.2mbps using ATT. ATT hasn’t enabled those speeds yet. In all actually, yes Verizon’s 3G is just as fast in current average real life speeds as ATT’s 3G, the only difference currently is that Verizon has a lot more 3G coverage. ATT’s HSDPA has the ability to be faster than Verizon’s EVDO Rev A, but ATT hasn’t allowed those faster speeds yet on their network. So make sure you know what kind of lie to come up with before you post it.
Bottom line: A network is only as good as it is for you. All carriers have holes in their coverage, and you’d be wise to trial each carrier at several locations (your home, your job, and where you play) before choosing a long term carrier.
From my personal experience, VZW seems to do real well in the NorthEast, while AT&T does real well in South, and MidWest, and Sprint does well in the West.
Geez, so many dumb posts by uneducated posters (read: MadMike) in this thread. Sometimes people are so desperate to justify the thing they’ve chosen that they’ll say anything to vindicate their decision. As a Verizon customer, all I have to point to is the NUMEROUS studies and polls conducted (e.g. Consumer Reports, J.D. Power and Associates, etc.) that consistently rank Verizon the top wireless provider–and rank at&t at the bottom with Sprint.
In the last week or so J.D. Power released the report for highest customer service ratings, and guess who was number one–Verizon. We all know for d*mn sure it wasn’t at&t.
As a 2G iPhone owner and a current iPhone 3G owner, I have to say that this document is hilarious. I never thought a company like Verizion would stoop to this level as to bash a great device like the iPhone. But I guess it is hurting their revenue because why else would they release a document like this? Internal or not, it still shows that Verizon isn’t as high and mighty as I once thought. Now AT&T go in for the kill and upgrade your 3G nework and get it ready for 4G. Verizon, justbe happy that your getting the “Blackberry Blunder” as an exclusive and stay focused on your reliable network.
Ok but sum up the 2 year contract with both devices and data plans, and your only paying $40 more for the “better” phone in the long run. They shouldn’t put down the competition, It’s tasteless…
Wow, this is my first visit to this site, and it’ll likely be my last. Way to be a biased douche. I’ll point out your mistakes for you, idiot.
“It’s actually pretty comical with Verizon telling agents the iPhone 3G doesn’t support turn-by-turn GPS navigation (which it doesn’t at the moment) but all Verizon data devices do.”
The document doesn’t claim that all Verizon Wireless data devices support VZ Navigator. The vast majority of them do. And iPhone doesn’t currently support turn-by-turn GPS navigation (which you admitted), so why even bring this up? Verizon Wireless isn’t lying whenever they say that.
“Well, we’d pay to not use Verizon’s craptastic GPS software.”
Wow, that’s funny, considering the fact that VZ Navigator has saved my ass time after time. It’s very accurate and gives you a lot more than just turn-by-turn directions. I somehow doubt that you’ve even used it.
“Another one? Verizon inaccurately stating that “There is an assumption that the new iPhone’s data package will include all data – IT DOES NOT!!””
It’s referring to messaging. Picture and video messaging is a data service. Oh, I forgot…that isn’t important with iPhone, as it doesn’t support that. Darn…
“Oh, VZW… maybe if you didn’t pass on the phone you wouldn’t be spreading this madness. At least you have Thunder soon, no?”
They passed on it because it’d be a complete bitch to support, thanks to Apple’s bullshit stranglehold on all things hardware-related. Have fun not having a phone to use whenever your precious iPhone is sent away having its battery replaced, moron.
Interesting how the immediate reaction to this type of document, for some of the people here, was that Verizon was shaking in its boots over the iPhone. Let me give you my inside perspective.
An iPhone has, in some form or another, been out for a year. Verizon hasn’t seen any notable loss in momentum in that year.
I’ve seen these document, and other just like them. What happened – what people on the outside of the company don’t know – is that high-level corporate executives were going on secret visits to stores and seeing how their sales force was responding to the question, “Do you carry the iPhone.”
The number one response from Verizon sales staff was, “Oh, you want AT&T, they’re around the corner.”
Number two response was a simple “no.”
From a sales perspective, this is stupid. From ANY sales perspective this is one of the most foolish answers you can give to anyone, customer or internal secret shopper. One of the top rules in sales is NEVER say NO. If you don’t have something, can’t do something, or won’t be able to make something work for your customer, never say the word NO. The second you say NO you’ve created a barrier between you (the salesperson) and the customer. Anyone who’s ever been in a competitive sales environment will tell you this.
So when Verizon reps say, “No, we don’t have the iPhone,” there is nothing else you can say to save a sale. If you approach the situation with sales questions (also known as answering a question with another question, a typical sales technique implemented by ANY sales team), you are more likely to manipulate the situation to your advantage.
This is BASIC sales theory.
The way you get a sales team to stop thinking “I don’t carry the iPhone” and start thinking “I carry 50 other phones that do most of, as much, or more than the iPhone” is to get them thinking about WHY the iPhone’s most unique selling point is it’s name.
I don’t see documents like this as desperate. It’s corrective. The people at the front line are are missing sales opportunities – not fighting the iPhone head on.
I can tell you from experience and observation that the iPhone cannot be beat head on. It takes the mentality of the people having to answer questions like “do you carry the iPhone” to fight perception that the iPhone is unique in its offering deck.
I would not be surprised to find Sprint, T-Mobile, and Alltel sporting similar internal documents.
V
I’ll take Verizon’s EVDO Data network over AT&T’s any day. I don’t need an iPhone, and I sure don’t covet AT&Ts voice and data network. I laughed when a colleague told me that with the 3G on their new iPhones, they’re getting slower speeds than I’ve been getting with EVDO for 2 years.
To make up for its inferior data/voice network, it seems AT&T has to lure customers in with “Excuone and being initial “exclusive iPhone rights” and “First to carry this phone/PDA/Smartphone” That’s not caused me to move over because service and network are most important in my book.
@ william
So the fact that your own CEO is on record of saying that “Verizon Wireless sets the standard in the industry. It gets kind of hard to keep up….” in no way shape or form contradicts what you just said?
It does actually….
What you’re forgetting, with your question of “what VZW offers that nobody else does, and something i didn’t mention…go on, i dare ya…”
is the simple fact that it doesn’t matter who does what or how many people do it… it’s WHO DOES IT BEST…. and that, my ignorant friend, is Verizon. Don’t take my word on it… no no. Check out the recent J.D. Power and Associates Survey for best customer service. Check out who has the lowest churn in the industry? Who has the highest and fasted growth in the industry? Who is recognized as the industry leader? Oh, and who does almost every major investment and financial institution say is the most financially stable and most PROSPEROUS wireless company in the game today? Verizon Wireless. But like I said… don’t just go and hate on me and reply back with your obvious 2nd grade common sense style of writing, do some research. Maybe then, you TOO can pull your head out of your ass and see the wireless industry for what it really is.
Madmike must have run out of google searches, because its taking him awhile to redeem himself.
Look at some of you sticking up for one or the other corporate cellphone company. I’ve seen so many people complaining about Verizon and how much they love At&t now…after being on their network for 3 months. How about wait until your contract runs out and then comment. Same goes for current the VZW fanboys. It is ridiculous the extent some of you are going through to argue for these companies. You think these executives give a damn what you are saying? I’m sure they would switch ship in a heart beat if they were offered more money.
As one poster mentioned, if you like the iPhone, get it. If you like VZW service, sign up. Though I have Verizon right now, I am still open to my options. If I moved and VZW sucks where I am at then I will try AT&T. But overall, just pick what you like and keep your mouth shut about it. Don’t be a walking billboard for these corporations, it cheapens yourself.
Bunches and bunches of strawman arguments and a whiney BG.
There isn’t much in that alleged VZ doc that isn’t true about AT&T. You do end up paying $40 more on their supposed cheaper device ($2×40 vs $2×4x) after 2 years are up, 3G is only most metro areas and then not even that, data IS more expensive for no real technical reason over the $20 plan (nor is the $40 plan any more special). Definitely sucks compared to the rest of the world’s UMTS.
None of this is news except to those with iPhone blinders on.
I apologize to everyone. I am an idiot.
@MadMike: you wrote, “… and they will charge us out the ass for it. BOTH AT&T and VZW. Because they both came from the same company that was so corrupt it was broken up.”
Not sure exactly what you mean, but I believe Verizon descended from GTE, which descended from General Telephone, which was not part of the Bell network. In fact, as I recall, it was there only competitor for decades.
It’s sort of funny how after that huge anti-trust case we’re basically right back where we started.
But I could be wrong.
@ Visinside guy: great post.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. I’m shopping for a phone and service right now. I got a Mac at home, a PC at work, and I want something smart enough to sync tasks and calendars from both places. In the area I live, the anecdotal evidence is that Verizon has the best coverage for voice service, which is what’s most important to me. I have Verizon FIOS at home, and am unimpressed (it’s OK, but the parental management features aren’t as good as DirecTV and the remote set-top box vs. TV power switch syncing sucks). My wife’s employer gives 10% discount for Verizon; mine gives 15% discount with AT&T. My daughter wants a flip phone/QWERTY and the only AT&T phone like that seems to be the Pentech Duo, which isn’t heap and doesn’t get very good reviews.
What should I do?
People – Everyone is comparing RED APPLES to GREEN APPLES – both companies have there good and bad points and I am sure that both companies will WIN in certain catagories! But neither BIG RED nor BIG BLUE can claim to be the BEST for everything to everyone!!!! As an ATT employee i certainly understnad that there will be some things that “V” will be better on and there will be some things that “A” will be better on – I dont knock down “V” because they are a very good company and nothing wrong with some good ole fashion competition – after all this is America, and as a consumer I love the fact that I have numerous options at my disposal when I need a service done. We also have interanl documents that compare our competitions phones and services to ours and what WE do better than they do, is this practice wrong….NO….its the nature of the BEAST and it will always be this way until the end of time – welcome to CORPORATE America folks!!!
@mo mike
AMEN!!!!!!!!!
I always love coming to electronics forums (especially cell phones) to see what people are complaining about these days. Verizon Wireless and AT&T are both businesses. If they have the opportunity to make incremental money, and not lose customers in the process, why the hell wouldn’t they do it? Vzw still has the lowest churn rate in the business and are the most profitable, so it sounds to me like they are making smart moves. They have a pretty sweet network to boot! Now calm down people, I’m not discounting AT&T’s network. It rocks as well. And by the way, some poster earlier mentioned something about AT&T having the most customers, but let’s not forget about the fantastical merger between cingular and att to create that monstrosity. Once vzw picks up alltel (should have been done years ago, damn you denny strigl! Even if you are a charismatic SOB) they will be on top.
My hopes, as an employee as well as a customer (I have to pay a bill too people) is that after becoming an even larger cpompany, verizon doesn’t lose it’s mind and treat customers/employees like trash.
Quote on passing on iPhone: Doh!
@ william:
BAHHHHHHHHHH!
You can’t assume something that happens in some location is the same everywhere, and as far as customers migrating to AT@T From Verizon, well at least as many if not more do the opposite.
@ TheBoyGenius:
I’ll add my voice to the chorus of those telling you to drop your bias when you write your articles. If you don’t want to be a vzw customer then don’t be one keep your iToy. But the rest of us want a good network and excellent customer service. And yes we are willing to pay more for something that is better.
So you are whining about Verizon taking pot shots at iPhone? Well Apple started all this crap-flinging when they aired those lame Mac vs PC commercials. They just getting it back.
Thank you William from AT&T. I also work for Blue. I have friends who work/worked for VZW and what he said is true. They are CUTTHROAT to the death. That bullshit about transferring numbers (VZW phone to VZW phone is for REAL) They will lie,lie, and lie some more.. Too bad they passed on Iphone.. I’ll take my 3g Iphone and my 8,000 cleared commish check every month. Proud to work for a company that for the most part, does give a shit. Yes, there are times when I get a Feature-less and empty accessory sale, oh well.. Like William said, its about the how the customers rule. Haters gonna hate..
Afghan Tactics? dude, you are so politically incorrect, what a srupid way to open a seeminlgly serious article